by Karl Heidenreich » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:58 am, Post Despite their deficiencies, the exploits and dramatic careers of the Bismarck and Tirpitz have made these ships near legends in modern naval history”. Bismarck had battleship armour, 8 x 15inch guns and a top speed of 30 knots, at a time when Britain could only call upon Hood (a 20 year old battlecruisers, with a First World War fire computer and known vulnerabilities) and King George V. That made her a huge threat.
In a way the German armored scheme made sense, they were vastly outnumbered by the Royal Navy and the Scharnhorst and Bismarck Classes could outrun most of the British Battleships when designed so if they could be armored to stop cruiser caliber weapons than they could be more effective raiders. This makes perfect sense to me, as Yamato also had the distinction of carrying the only armor plates which were completely impervious to any battleship weapon ever mounted afloat -- her 660mm turret faceplates. One way to tell how the naval architects viewed things is to look at the last classes of pre and post-WW2 battleships (only one “post”, the Vanguard) and see how the various countries voted. From a deck armor perspective, Yamato comes out on top, followed closely again by Richelieu and Iowa. http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Pe ... ermany.php.
Then as the orders came to shift target the main gunnery control was degraded..... ''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery. by Karl Heidenreich » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:06 pm, Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited. Although I acknowledge the work that went into creating them, on what basis might these charts be considered authoritative, or more accurate than a case-by-case evaluation? With all due respect, this comparison has frequently been used to reduce the impressive achievement of the Bismarck designers. I think it is valuable to read them again: By the mid thirties the Germans were not considering to engage the British in a battle for the supremacy of the North Atlantic. Her designers anticipated weather and visibility conditions such as had prevailed at Jutland in WWI. It makes the American and French feats of achieving protection within a hair as good, on much smaller displacements (particularly the South Dakota, which has the second smallest displacement of the seven warships detailed here), a very impressive feat as well.
Bismarck had 19,000 tons of armor while South Dakota only had 8200 tons. This is a common myth and is untrue. by RF » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:30 am, Post
Hood's shooting at DS initially wasn't bad, it was only shooting at the wrong ship. by Thorsten Wahl » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:14 pm, Post But at the time when we resumed battleship construction, when we could see that we would have a very small number of battleships in any case, it occurred to us that the resistance to sinking of ships should be increased as much as possible to render the few we had as impregnable as possible. Warships, naval battles, technology, weapons, navies of all eras, modeling, etc. The only thing shared with Bayern/L20 is the distributed armor scheme… Your quote indicates that they believed the Bismarck's to be something other than "mere copies". ↳ The Ironclad & Pre-dreadnought Era (1860-1905), ↳ Movies, Films, Documentaries and Games.
If you want the really gory details on how I did this, click here. If the Standards have a negative immune zone against post WWI shells then so does every other contemporary design. by yellowtail3 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:48 pm, Post by RNfanDan » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:46 pm, Post She was, indeed, an awesome beast.
17,540 tons Richelieu armor scheme: Main belt armor 330 mm Turrets 170-430 mm Upper Deck 24 mm Armor Deck 150 mm Protected Length 54% PC/TC 10/21 Armor weight.
by Karl Heidenreich » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:20 pm, Post Also I have seen till today no evidence from primary sources, that the armour layout of Bismarck or Scharnhorst, as two reprensentives of ships without an AoN layout, were inferior to AoN ships of their deplacement and class. But it does no such thing. Bismarck’s three main types of armament was a very ‘out of date’ concept by the 30’s indicating that the Germans were not following current ideas on armament as well as armour layout. Not at all questionable. Maybe not in this thread, but in plenty of other places.
Even the latter was armed with sub standard guns in order to gave the British a “token of good will” if that could be applied to Hitler. Poorly trained or mediocre crews do not win battles so easily. You have something like a Colorado which does not have turtleback armour either but still resists to citadel hits at close range. by Djoser » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:36 am, Post And the shells which penetrate Bismarck's upper belt and explode high order somewhere above her armored deck just vanish and don't do any damage. Richelieu also had this same design, and very good protection as a result.
From his paper detailing the usage of Bismarck's 15"/47 gun to shoot at all seven of 'The Contenduh's', I extracted a quantification of the total zones of vulnerability, for both deck and belt armor, of each of the seven ships. The Bismarck, for example, is an upgraded Bayern/L20 α design. by Karl Heidenreich » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:24 pm, Post by Thorsten Wahl » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:12 pm, Post I based my ratings extensively upon the work of Nathan Okun.
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